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wanabbig
01-14-2013, 10:51 AM
While sister was talking about front squats I need help all the way around. I don't do front squats because of my balance issue but after reading sister's post I'm going to try and add them in instead of the leg extensions. Now my upper body is great but my legs, UG! Been working the legs just about as long but they don't respond as well as my upper body. My wife says there big but I don't think so. My problem is I'm 6'4" with an inseem of 36". My legs are 27" in diamater with some definition. There just not bam! I was hoping that you all could throw some ideas my way :-)

Here is my leg workout:
warm up squats 20+ reps
then 4 sets of squats 13 to 15 reps
3 sets of good morning's (ham strings) 13 to 15 reps
3 sets of leg press 13 to 15 reps
3 sets of ham string curls 13 to 15 reps
3 sets of leg extensions 13 to 15 reps, I know there bad but I don't have trouble with them.

I need both volume and def. When I'm done I can hardly walk and 2 hours later I cramp bad but by the next morning the cramps are gone. I want to throw up everytime I do legs :(

Thanks folks!

SisterSteel
01-14-2013, 10:58 AM
Ditch all those machines. IMHO machines are only good if you're rehabbing an injury. You want to work your hams start doing some snatch grip RDL's, SLDL on a platform, GHR's, Lunges with a bar. GM's are more of a lower back movement than a hamstring exercise (they get worked but it's not the primary mover). Also, cut those reps down. Don't be afraid to put some weight on your back and take it for a ride.

wanabbig
01-14-2013, 11:22 AM
sis, not to argue but it seems like the machines issolate the movement to the muscle. The GM seem to get the ass and upper hamstrings (right below the ass) and hamstring curls get the lower (behind the knee) and makes em come out and pop. I don;t mean to sound ignorant but what is a snatch grip RDL?? You said lower the reps, I have thought about that because that's the way I train my upper body (actualy on the flip flop, high rep week and low rep week) but I had several BB years ago tell me that legs are funny, they like high reps to see results. They said legs are used so much everyday (walking and getting around) that they need high reps to break them down. But since there not growing like I want I'll try the lower reps to see :)

Thanx

Fit Guru
01-14-2013, 01:01 PM
If that's your order of lifts then they are all out of whack. Don't ditch leg extensions . Do them first always as a warm up. Your squats are too high in reps which leads me to believe you are going way too light. Your whole routine is a "I hate training legs so I'm gonna do the easiest stuff I can" here's what I'd do

Leg ext 4x 15
Squats 5x8-10( ass to ankles)
Leg press 4x10
Hack squats 4x10( all the way down)
Lying leg curls 4x15
Bulgarian dead lifts3x10( use dumbells legs shoulder width slightly bent, bend down far as u can go then back up without locking)
This is how the big boys get it done anyway!!

Vicious 13
01-14-2013, 01:29 PM
Do any of u guys wrap your knees on leg days?

wanabbig
01-14-2013, 03:15 PM
Holly shit fit! I do hate to do legs but like I said the high reps were from what I was told a few years back. Thanks, I'll give it a whirl this week! Don't know if I'll have the energy for the whole thing as my routine already kicks my ass. When I say that, I mean nause, dizziness, and pure exaushtion. And thats with using shotgun as a pre workout drink. I'm a puss LOL

mj_0360
01-14-2013, 04:14 PM
I hated to do legs until I got stronger and they started growing. I've added inches to my legs this cycle by focusing on squats- going as heavy as I can with my ass to my ankles. Like guru said, I always start w leg extensions, doing them just enough to get a pump and warm em up. Then I jump to a medium squat weight and work my way up to where I can only do 4 reps and then wor my way back down in weight back to where I started burning out each set. I recently added front squats right after normal squats, followed by standing leg curls, seated leg curls. This usually kills me but I am slowly becoming able to add more exercises and weight every workout.

wanabbig
01-14-2013, 04:32 PM
Thanx mj, I was reading your log earlier on how your cycle was going. Thats great, need to trim that hair back tho LOL. Getting ready to start me another cycle and I hope my legs really come around this time. This makes year 3 on chemicals and my legs are slow to come around. I wish I was 5'10" instead of 6'4"!

Ironguruera
01-14-2013, 06:16 PM
while I do like higher reps on some leg exercises I prefer high reps on leg press. I prefer 8-12 for most leg stuff. A heavy 6 rep set is good as a mix up.

The only thing I like in your current routine is the squats and leg press. the extensions are ok but depends on how u place them in the routine. Use them like fit said. Or as a finisher.

Good mornings are not a hamstring move. They do involve hams but barely. U need either hamstring tensile curls, stiff leg deads, Romanian deads. Then use the laying or standing ham curls as a finisher.

if hack slide machine doesn't hurt your knees they work great. I'd pick either front squat or hack slides.

I'd go like this.
Quad extensions
Squats
Leg press
Front squats or hack slide

Stiff leg deads or Romanian db stiff leg deads

Laying ham curl or tensile contraction

Standing ham curl.

Here is a tensile contraction. These are hard as hell!

834

Fit Guru
01-14-2013, 07:59 PM
Holly shit fit! I do hate to do legs but like I said the high reps were from what I was told a few years back. Thanks, I'll give it a whirl this week! Don't know if I'll have the energy for the whole thing as my routine already kicks my ass. When I say that, I mean nause, dizziness, and pure exaushtion. And thats with using shotgun as a pre workout drink. I'm a puss LOL

If you do leg presses don't do hacks and vice versa but always squat

wanabbig
01-14-2013, 08:30 PM
If that's your order of lifts then they are all out of whack. Don't ditch leg extensions . Do them first always as a warm up. Your squats are too high in reps which leads me to believe you are going way too light. Your whole routine is a "I hate training legs so I'm gonna do the easiest stuff I can" here's what I'd do

Leg ext 4x 15
Squats 5x8-10( ass to ankles)
Leg press 4x10
Hack squats 4x10( all the way down)
Lying leg curls 4x15
Bulgarian dead lifts3x10( use dumbells legs shoulder width slightly bent, bend down far as u can go then back up without locking)
This is how the big boys get it done anyway!!

Now fit you just told me to do this. So your saying one or the other on the hack squat?? Also I might have miss said something, the good mornings to me are the stiff leg dead lift. Keeping legs stiff and back straight I bend as far as my hams will let me then back up keeping good form.

wanabbig
01-14-2013, 08:35 PM
while I do like higher reps on some leg exercises I prefer high reps on leg press. I prefer 8-12 for most leg stuff. A heavy 6 rep set is good as a mix up.

The only thing I like in your current routine is the squats and leg press. the extensions are ok but depends on how u place them in the routine. Use them like fit said. Or as a finisher.

Good mornings are not a hamstring move. They do involve hams but barely. U need either hamstring tensile curls, stiff leg deads, Romanian deads. Then use the laying or standing ham curls as a finisher.

if hack slide machine doesn't hurt your knees they work great. I'd pick either front squat or hack slides.

I'd go like this.
Quad extensions
Squats
Leg press
Front squats or hack slide

Stiff leg deads or Romanian db stiff leg deads

Laying ham curl or tensile contraction

Standing ham curl.

Here is a tensile contraction. These are hard as hell!

834

Holly hell iron, that does look tough! But it looks like it would kick the hams in the ass LOL

Thanx Dude!

Fit Guru
01-14-2013, 08:44 PM
Now fit you just told me to do this. So your saying one or the other on the hack squat?? Also I might have miss said something, the good mornings to me are the stiff leg dead lift. Keeping legs stiff and back straight I bend as far as my hams will let me then back up keeping good form.

Yes on days you do hacks don't do presses.good mornings don't hit the hams near as good as stiff legged dreads or Bulgarians.their more for lower back.

SisterSteel
01-15-2013, 01:40 AM
sis, not to argue but it seems like the machines issolate the movement to the muscle. The GM seem to get the ass and upper hamstrings (right below the ass) and hamstring curls get the lower (behind the knee) and makes em come out and pop. I don;t mean to sound ignorant but what is a snatch grip RDL?? You said lower the reps, I have thought about that because that's the way I train my upper body (actualy on the flip flop, high rep week and low rep week) but I had several BB years ago tell me that legs are funny, they like high reps to see results. They said legs are used so much everyday (walking and getting around) that they need high reps to break them down. But since there not growing like I want I'll try the lower reps to see :)

Thanx

Well machines isolate the muscle but they don't work any stabilizers and don't recruit the maximum amount of muscles to aid in performing any lift. Compound multi joint movements got me 30" legs at 5'5 so I must be doing something right. For every bber who tells you high reps, I've talked to many who say just the opposite. You have to find out what works for YOU and if high reps are getting you nowhere than it's time to try something different. If I perform high reps in my training guess what happens to me.... I stop growing. Like I said you have to find what works for YOU. IMHO heavy training usually works simply because the muscle can do 1 of 2 things when it's stressed by a heavy workload.... it can grow or it can tear (and I'm not talking about the tearing that takes place when your growing).

If your GM's aren't hitting your lower back than you're doing them wrong. GM's build the spinal erectors as they are the primary mover in the lift. Now the glutes and hamstring do aid in performing the lift but their not the primary mover.

Snatch Grip RDL's are a very wide grip Romanian deadlift. Snatch Grip is a Olympic Weightlifting term for a specific hand position on the bar. If you're around 6' tall you'd want your hands just about at the collars. This hand positioning will increase the ROM of the lift and also incorporate other muscles in the exercise like the lats.

SisterSteel
01-15-2013, 01:44 AM
Do any of u guys wrap your knees on leg days?

Depends. I know that's a vague answer but it depends on the percentages I'm using that day for my squats. I am a firm believer than if you're squatting with 85% or more than you should wrap your knees.

Now we can also discuss wrapping. Do you wrap in or out? Do you start at the top or the bottom? Do you cross your wrap like an X. Wrapping your knees is a science and in order to do it properly you need to understand the knee and what you should be doing with it when squatting. Remember you should ALWAYS push your knees OUT when you are back squatting, period. Doesn't matter if you're wrapping your knees and squatting completely raw.

If you want I can talk a lot more about this because if you wrap your knees wrong you can hurt yourself.

ltyson
01-15-2013, 06:31 AM
Sister I would love to hear your thoughts on wrapping. I wrap outwards, starting at the top, and have used both an x pattern and just a normal spiral pattern for lack of a better description, but would love to hear how you do it based on your experiance.

Ltyson

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Vicious 13
01-15-2013, 11:29 AM
Thank u sister! Can u please explain how I should wrap. I want to start working legs again but I really feel like my knees need a little more support. My left knee had ostraslaughters (can't spell) well it got bad from years of sports and activity and the ligament pulled a small niece of bone from my knee so now under the knee cap there is a bump. Surgery is 50 50 so I'm not to thrilled to jump into it. It feels a lot better w pressure on it so I think wrapping would help when lifting. Hope this post isn't confusing

chrisotpherm
01-15-2013, 12:53 PM
Check this out. He talks forever but technique is spot on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fAKGFX0gQY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

red crayon
01-15-2013, 01:34 PM
Some good Info in this thread. For a lot of what I do I have to guess and see what happens. I believe that a leg program with out squats is a waste of time, but thats just me. I have used knee wraps but I waited until the weight I was lifting was close to 3 times my body weight. I was up in the 600 to 700 pound range. I dont count singles so that was at least 2 or 3 reps. Machines and high reps are good, in my opinion, but only good for some better definition and rehab. I wouldnt use them as a main size builder. If you look at the photos Sister Steel has posted I would say she can help you with the legs based on the photos. Its obvious she trains them based on a program that works. She probably hasn't had to guess and train without any help like I have. Good Luck.

SisterSteel
01-15-2013, 05:07 PM
Thank u sister! Can u please explain how I should wrap. I want to start working legs again but I really feel like my knees need a little more support. My left knee had ostraslaughters (can't spell) well it got bad from years of sports and activity and the ligament pulled a small niece of bone from my knee so now under the knee cap there is a bump. Surgery is 50 50 so I'm not to thrilled to jump into it. It feels a lot better w pressure on it so I think wrapping would help when lifting. Hope this post isn't confusing

No, what you wrote isn't confusing. There are several different ways to wrap the knee. I personally like to wrap my knees "in" so I can really push against the wraps. Wrapping them "out" makes it easier to push your knees out which is why so many do it that way. You can start your wrap from the top and go down or vice versa.

The vid of Cartwright is easy to follow and also easy to do especially if you have to wrap your own knees. It's not how I wrap mine. I was shown how to wrap my knees by Steve Goggins (first man to squat 1100+lbs) but it'll work fine.

The thing I want you to take away from the vid is keep the leg straight that's being wrapped. Keep the wrap tension as consistent as you can (I know this isn't easy). Don't wrap too low. More of the wrap will be above the knee and not below it. Other than that many start out going straight up or down (overlapping the layers a bit) and than coming back up at the end.

zedhed
01-15-2013, 05:16 PM
Ok will someone plz put up a good vid of how to do a proper GM?
And thanks!

kazman68
01-15-2013, 09:10 PM
No, what you wrote isn't confusing. There are several different ways to wrap the knee. I personally like to wrap my knees "in" so I can really push against the wraps. Wrapping them "out" makes it easier to push your knees out which is why so many do it that way. You can start your wrap from the top and go down or vice versa.

The vid of Cartwright is easy to follow and also easy to do especially if you have to wrap your own knees. It's not how I wrap mine. I was shown how to wrap my knees by Steve Goggins (first man to squat 1100+lbs) but it'll work fine.

The thing I want you to take away from the vid is keep the leg straight that's being wrapped. Keep the wrap tension as consistent as you can (I know this isn't easy). Don't wrap too low. More of the wrap will be above the knee and not below it. Other than that many start out going straight up or down (overlapping the layers a bit) and than coming back up at the end.


Well said, and don't be afraid to wrap them tight..one dork would wrap his so loose they would pop loose in the middle of a set, if he wrapped them tight 'they hurt too much' guy was the biggest pussy. (no offense lady's)

Vicious 13
01-15-2013, 09:20 PM
It feels better wrapped tight. I just want to make sure I'm doing it properly and using the right wraps and stuff

SisterSteel
01-15-2013, 09:55 PM
It feels better wrapped tight. I just want to make sure I'm doing it properly and using the right wraps and stuff

You'll want to use a springier wrap since you're a raw lifter (I'm assuming) and not an equipped one. This will help you out of the hole. And like Kaz said you want to wrap the wraps tightly. One VERY important thing when wrapping tight is NEVER pull your wrap down when you're wrapping over. Pull it tight from the back when you're coming up from behind. Your knees will thank you.

wanabbig
01-16-2013, 10:09 PM
Thanx sis for all this information! Luckaly I've never had an issue with my knees and knock on wood I hope I never do! I've got a plan to restructure my leg work out. I can't think everyone enough on all the information. This is def a great site, as I have been here for a while now, and plan on staying for a long time!

wanabbig
01-18-2013, 06:10 PM
Folks, thanks to all especialy fit guru and sis. I did legs two days ago with the new plan. Ouch I hurt! I think this will bring them out some more. I'll do this for 6 weeks and we'll see what happens. I'll post on this again after 6 weeks. Thanks all!!!!

SisterSteel
01-18-2013, 08:31 PM
Folks, thanks to all especialy fit guru and sis. I did legs two days ago with the new plan. Ouch I hurt! I think this will bring them out some more. I'll do this for 6 weeks and we'll see what happens. I'll post on this again after 6 weeks. Thanks all!!!!

Something else you can do is split your hamstrings and quads. Train them 2 different days. Many bbers I know do this. They'll put hamstrings with calves for one day and for the second put quads with calves.

wanabbig
01-18-2013, 10:29 PM
Sis I've heard that before to, except I did hamstrings with back. Actually I was thing about that the other day while doing legs. I might do that just to break things up a bit. :) I already do calves with back and abs with chest.

Fit Guru
01-18-2013, 11:59 PM
Sis I've heard that before to, except I did hamstrings with back. Actually I was thing about that the other day while doing legs. I might do that just to break things up a bit. :) I already do calves with back and abs with chest.

I've always done hams and quads the same day for one reason only.im crippled after every leg day so I'm only crippled after 1 WO not 2.lol

smoovy
01-19-2013, 02:55 AM
Pushing the Prowler, dragging a Sled and doing hill sprints will make anyones legs blow up. I do the Prowler on days I deadlift. Also, something that works good for me is switching up the rep range in months, for example I'm currently doing a 10 rep phase for squats, this will last 4 weeks. At the end of this phase I'll switch to a 5 rep phase for 4 weeks and then switch to a 3 rep phase for 4 weeks. Form is HUGE for squats, perfect form is more import than weight IMO, if you can squat 300 pounds but your back is bent forward and you cant get very low idk how effective that is and you run the risk of injury.

Hams seem to be the hardest part of my legs to develop, idk why. Quads are so easy to get big tho.

wanabbig
01-21-2013, 09:59 AM
True that Fit! Smoovy, I'm the other way around, my hams grow but the quads are slow. I think it's been my form and I've been in a rut but I'm changing it up so well see!

SisterSteel
01-21-2013, 01:20 PM
Pushing the Prowler, dragging a Sled and doing hill sprints will make anyones legs blow up. I do the Prowler on days I deadlift. Also, something that works good for me is switching up the rep range in months, for example I'm currently doing a 10 rep phase for squats, this will last 4 weeks. At the end of this phase I'll switch to a 5 rep phase for 4 weeks and then switch to a 3 rep phase for 4 weeks. Form is HUGE for squats, perfect form is more import than weight IMO, if you can squat 300 pounds but your back is bent forward and you cant get very low idk how effective that is and you run the risk of injury.

Hams seem to be the hardest part of my legs to develop, idk why. Quads are so easy to get big tho.

If you want to hit your hams more, when you squat be sure to duck your feet out. That will take the stress off the hips and put it on the hamstring.

Encino_Mang
02-05-2013, 10:12 AM
To me it looks like waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much to recover IF your looking to grow IMO......strap yourself to the rack and squat 5 - 10 reps sets

red crayon
02-05-2013, 09:51 PM
Something I didnt see mentioned here so I will say it. If your current program isnt working change it. If you want Bodybuilder style results dont be afraid to do a power lifter routine. You know the old saying "What ever works". Johnnie Jackson is a good example of what you can do by going both ways. (I hope I got his name right) I have read several books that didnt have as much good info about building legs as this thread does. Good luck with your legs and keep us posted.

red crayon
02-10-2013, 02:58 PM
lol, Swimming. I have to admit that this is a secret I have kept for a long time. If you want to get the best pump ever on all of your muscles, swim a few laps after your work out. Stay in the shallow end of the pool because the pump will be so hard that you will have to stop and stand up. When I was single I would do that on Friday before I went out Bar Hopping. Try it one time and you will see, it sounds crazy but it works.

wanabbig
02-10-2013, 07:26 PM
well folks I have to say there is a lot of great info on this thread. To date, 3 weeks, I have been ass to ankles with max rep of 8 and doing hams on my back day like I said I would do. WOW has my legs changed! They have grown an inch and I have definition. The quads are out without even straining and you can see a def transition between the hams and quads. I was thinking like someone posted, sorry can't remember the person, but to change up the reps every so often to keep the legs guessing. Folks you all have been a great help! I'll see if I can get some pics posted up here soon!

Thanks!

SisterSteel
02-12-2013, 01:35 AM
Remember when you squat to.... sit back, knees out, chest high, and stay tight.

Fit Guru
02-12-2013, 05:19 AM
well folks I have to say there is a lot of great info on this thread. To date, 3 weeks, I have been ass to ankles with max rep of 8 and doing hams on my back day like I said I would do. WOW has my legs changed! They have grown an inch and I have definition. The quads are out without even straining and you can see a def transition between the hams and quads. I was thinking like someone posted, sorry can't remember the person, but to change up the reps every so often to keep the legs guessing. Folks you all have been a great help! I'll see if I can get some pics posted up here soon!

Thanks!

Of course they are. What did you expect? Lol.. Ask and you shall receive.!!

red crayon
02-12-2013, 03:28 PM
I would say that most of the people here are like me. When I post its not a contest to have a better Idea than anyone else. I try and share a different Idea that has worked for me. Maybe with all the different Ideas you will get one that will work for you too.

Truthfully I have a small set of Ideas and I need more. Thats why I read everything I can thats posted here. I never know which Idea will be the next one that works for me.

Insanity = doing the samething the same way over and over and expecting different results!