Most Important to get BIG ??

[ordawg1]

Your Routine-diet or juice ?I hear guys all the time that say they are working hard in the gym -taking 400-1000 mgs test per week and not growing ?I always ask them how much they are eating ? Some say plenty-but I doubt it.Some say they are lifting big-but numerous reps and sets.
To me I would say that diet is about 70 % of the answer.If a guy is using say a gram of test per week and really hitting BIG weight-he is going to grow-PERIOD.
Quality sleep is another factor-but I have seen guys grow huge on lil sleep as long as diet was stellar.Let's hear it-comments please.I tossed this in this section-we can move it if needed-Thanks-OD

[Bruiser]

For me, it's all gotta be on point. If I'm lifting big, eating big (clean or not) and sleeping good... I make great strength and size gains. When I add in gear, I blow the fuck up!

[Fuelfan]

Eat, eat and then eat some more! I also log all my workouts on a stupid little app on my iPod so i'm not cheating myself on weight. Flexing my muscle after a lift and a good pump set helps me as well.

[Orange24]

For me its always been diet. I train hard and heavy (for me). I lift for strength and size. When diets in check (meal every 2.5 hrs) I'm continually growing. If I miss a meal its hell to pay. I shrink up extremely fast. But same is true for when I'm eating bit, I grow fast.

[zedhed]

DIET!
So many times I see guys say that 5x5 dosnt work...LMAO!!
If you eat to support the program you gonna GROW!
No ifs, ands or buts about it!

[Ironguruera]

Diet is the most important factor whether cutting or bulking IMHO. Took me years to realize it.

[ordawg1]

DIET!
So many times I see guys say that 5x5 dosnt work...LMAO!!
If you eat to support the program you gonna GROW!
No ifs, ands or buts about it!


Diet is the most important factor whether cutting or bulking IMHO. Took me years to realize it.

BINGO-this is my opinion also.Plus I like the whether cutting OR bulking part.Why does it take so long to realize ?Hmm-OD

[SisterSteel]

FOOD.... that's the most important thing. Lifting is a close second and AAS is third and isn't nearly as close as the first and second.

[Bruiser]

FOOD.... that's the most important thing. Lifting is a close second and AAS is third and isn't nearly as close as the first and second.

Where do you figure sleep in?

[Fuelfan]

Where do you figure sleep in?

Sleep? What the hell is that? That's the biggest thing that hurts my growth! I live on about 3 hours a day. I need to fix that but I can't seem to figure it out.

[zedhed]

Yeah you get all these skinny guys that thing their built and they are afraid to eat cuz they might actually gain some muscle. Cracks me up.
Skinny is not attractive male or female and skinny fat is the worst!

[artman115]

Diet for sure.. But you left one out...
So in order of importance: Knowledge, Diet, Training, Sleep, Exogenous Hormones/Supps.

Here's a good analogy:

Having the fastest race car (Genetics) at the track won't get you to the checkered flag (Goals) if you don't have the proper fuel (Nutrition) to make it run properly and make sure you don't run it into the ground (Sleep.) All the nitrous and High Performance (Hormones/Supps) in the world won't help you either, if you don't have the proper pit crew (Knowledge) to pull it all together.

[Ironguruera]

Where do you figure sleep in?

That's a given in my honest opinion. Even non BB should be getting a good nights sleep.

[red crayon]

I think knowledge is number one. If you know what your doing that goes a long way to getting you to where you want to be. Then we have the big three Diet, rest and your work out. A lot of people forget that you dont grow when your in the gym you grow when your away from it.

[ordawg1]

Diet for sure.. But you left one out...
So in order of importance: Knowledge, Diet, Training, Sleep, Exogenous Hormones/Supps.

Here's a good analogy:

Having the fastest race car (Genetics) at the track won't get you to the checkered flag (Goals) if you don't have the proper fuel (Nutrition) to make it run properly and make sure you don't run it into the ground (Sleep.) All the nitrous and High Performance (Hormones/Supps) in the world won't help you either, if you don't have the proper pit crew (Knowledge) to pull it all together.

Knowledge-I like it-but like Crayon said-maybe #1 -OD

[Fit Guru]

Diet is 80% of it! Case closed!

[Fit Guru]

I think knowledge is number one. If you know what your doing that goes a long way to getting you to where you want to be. Then we have the big three Diet, rest and your work out. A lot of people forget that you dont grow when your in the gym you grow when your away from it.

Nope self knowledge gets you nowhere unless you apply it.

[neoclassical]

In my opinion diet is paramount to sucess in bodybuilding. There is no way around a shitty diet. High level bodybuilding (npc, ifbb) is diffrent though. Everyone know's how to eat and train, so drug protocal's become more important. An experienced user with "good genetics" can run a heavy cycle of AAS, with a pristine diet, training perfect, sleeping 10 hours a day and will not carry anything that resembles modern day pro size. The introduction of legit pharm grade gh and insulin with AAS makes guys really blow up. Of course it all starts with food, and the ability to be diciplined in one's choices. I lifted for 3 years before I really started paying attention to my diet, and it was then that I noticed the most dramatic changes in my conditioning.

[AgentYes]

On the sponsor's list of complaints... the obvious reasons you're not getting the gains you thought you would on our gear:

1. YOU ARENT FUCKING EATING

[Vicious 13]

^^^^ yup

[SisterSteel]

Nope self knowledge gets you nowhere unless you apply it.

That's a very good point.

[red crayon]

Fit Guru you are spot on! Nothing works unless its applied. Knowledge is a good example of that. :)

[babablacksheep]

Lately for my diet I've been needing to eat some shit food everyday or I don't gain.....my new job at the steel mill burns fucking calories like no other.....it's very fast paced and phisical 12hr days....lately I won't gain if I don't eat some shit

[Orange24]

BBQ chicken pizza!

[Ironguruera]

BBQ chicken pizza!

Where?!?

[ordawg1]

Where?!?

SUPER BOWL PARTY at AYs place-see ya there !! OD

[Nelson303]

Post up the address. I got a fuck load of air miles. Lets party

[red crayon]

Beer and Pizzia! Definately not bodybuilding food but its the fastest way to gain weight I know of!

[Ironguruera]

SUPER BOWL PARTY at AYs place-see ya there !! OD

Thought u live in the caribe?

[Fuelfan]

Post up the address. I got a fuck load of air miles. Lets party

You and me both brother! It's on!

[kazman68]

I have known idiots who take loads of aas and train shitty and eat worse, you can;t even tell they work out. Diet is essential your training also has to be up to par, consistency, and intensity, plenty of rest is good as well. Aas are the icing on the cake, Lee Haney said bodybuilding was like a tripod, all legs are equally important, it doesn't matter how strong the legs are you pull one out it falls over.

[chrisotpherm]

I have known idiots who take loads of aas and train shitty and eat worse, you can;t even tell they work out. Diet is essential your training also has to be up to par, consistency, and intensity, plenty of rest is good as well. Aas are the icing on the cake, Lee Haney said bodybuilding was like a tripod, all legs are equally important, it doesn't matter how strong the legs are you pull one out it falls over.

So true. As many said I see guys train crazy hard and because they are scared of eating a lot of food because of ignorance knowledge eventually over train with injuries because they don't have enough calories or nutrition to keep up with the optempo.

Heck when I begin a bulk I get a little flabby at first because of the increase in calories, but after about three weeks my body figures out what's going on and then grow, grow, grow I go.

The aas addition lord we all have horror stories of guys intake by ml and mg and have no set training or diet and always have adverse side affects. Anyone I help I won't even deal with them unless they get a complete cycle: gear, AI, and pct. Before that I must know they actually workout and eat right. There is no way in the world I will be responsible in the slightest for their failure.

[kazman68]

Gotta have fuel in the tank, the better the fuel (higher octane ) the better the machine runs.

[red crayon]

I used to help people out where I work out. Then some bozo came in and started telling them the answer is AAS and more AAS. After that I quit doing it. I wont help anyone now.

I believe that you must have everything in line, natural or not. AAS is like a booster for the other stuff. You must have a firm foundation to buid a big house. If you dont the slightest breeze will blow it over, its that simple.

[ineedtogrow]

Lately for my diet I've been needing to eat some shit food everyday or I don't gain.....my new job at the steel mill burns fucking calories like no other.....it's very fast paced and phisical 12hr days....lately I won't gain if I don't eat some shit
i'm right there with you. i work with steel all day and it's extremely hot and fast paced. i have to eat junk right before work or i'll stay leveled out or actually loose.

[red crayon]

Thats something that some people dont think about, ineedtogrow. Whats going to do your body more damage, missing a meal or eating a bad meal? Personally I think that missing a meal will do more damage or derail your training more than eatig a meal made from whats available. What does everyone else think?

[Bigmike]

Thats something that some people dont think about, ineedtogrow. Whats going to do your body more damage, missing a meal or eating a bad meal? Personally I think that missing a meal will do more damage or derail your training more than eatig a meal made from whats available. What does everyone else think?

I'm with you on this... you can never go back and have lunch one its passed. You can always adjust your training to burn the extra you may have taken in with a random make shift meal.

[mryar]

Like baking a cake, miss one ingredient and it won't turn out well.

Mike Arnold answered a question of mine that's related to this: http://www.musclecoalition.com/showthread.php?1040-Gains-aren-t-like-1st-cycle-how-come&p=14592&viewfull=1#post14592


The reason you're not gaining like your 1st cycle is because this is not your 1st cycle. You will never make those kind of gains again...and on your 3rd cycle you will gain less than you did on your 2nd...and then less on your 4th...then 5th..etc....until eventually, you will be lucky to gain a couple new pounds of muscle with each cycle. After that, you will begin losing every pound of muscle you gain from every cycle as soon as you go off. The ONLY way to overcome that and continue gaining more muscle is to take less time off and spend more time on. At some point, even that won't be sufficient anymore...and you will be forced to stay on all year round....and if you want to continue gaining muscle beyond that, you will be forced to use drugs all year long in fairly large amounts just to gain a few pounds of muscle each year.

By cycling 50% of the time on/50% of the time off...you will never approach the size of a pro BB'r. In fact, for most guys who follow that format, their gains will stall after just a couple of years, to the point where they will only be gaining a couple new pounds of muscle each year...and soon after that their gains will stop. Just to give you an idea, by the time you get to around your 6th or 7th cycle (roughly), you will only be gaining about 4-5 oounds of new muscle per cycle...and it will continue to quickly decrease from there as time goes by.

For guys who continue cycling 50% ON/50% OFF...they will always gain a decent amount of weight each time they go back on (a good portion of it will be intramuscular water retention), but as I said earlier, once you reach a certain point in your development, "all" of that weight will be lost when you go off. Your natural hormonal environment can only support so much muscle tissue, regardless of ho good your PCT is...so once you reach the point where your natural T production can no longer support the amount of muscle tissue you built on cycle, you will continue to lose "all" the muscle you gained beyond that point every time you stop using AAS. You will never be able to maintain ANY amount of muscle beyond what your natural hormonal environment can support...period. Unfortunately, the natural hormonal environment of the average man cannot spuport very much muscle tissue at all...not anywhere close to a pro BB'r. Some men are more blessed than others in this regard, but no one will ever get "huge" cycling 50% On/50% off. The BB'r simply spends too much time with an inferior hormonal environment.

As many guys here have already stated, one of the key pitfalls of most BB'rs trying to add size is that they do not eat enough. If a BB'r wants to maximize the amount of muscle he can gain...and does not want to stagnate prematurely...he MUST come to realize that for every new pound of muscle he gains, he MUST increase his caloric intake "forever", if he wants to maintain that new muscle. He will never again be able to eat what he did when he was lighter...and the bigger he gets, the more he must eat simply to maintain that new muscle, let alone gain more. In reality, most BB'rs stop making gains not because they aren't using enough AAS, but because they get to a point where they stop increasing their calories. They think to themselves..."I am already eating so much food...I can't eat anymore"...and then their gains stop. It might not sound fair or fun, but the body doesn't care how full you feel, it ONLY cares if it has enough calories to keep building more muscle tissue. The average 250-300 lb off-season BB'r will require between 4,000-6,000 calories per day to maintain ther muscle tissue. 4K is hard enough for some guys, while other guys have a much easier time with it, BUT...almost everyone thinks it is a total bitch to eat 6K cals per day...and many guys just can do it. Hell, many guys cant even eat 4K cals per day on a regular basis. I have spoken with so many BB'rs over the years who think they eat "sooo much food", but they don't eat shit! When they actually add ther calories up, they find they're eating around 3-3.5 K cals per day. Diet is by far the most difficult part of maximizing one's BB'ing potential. Without a enough of the right food at the right times, the BB'rs is sure to fail in his quest of maximizing his physical potential.