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zedhed
05-27-2013, 05:16 PM
why leg extensions are bad for your knees
This is an article regarding leg extensions vs. squats that explains a bit on why extensions are bad for the knees...

There are still myths surrounding so-called healthful exercises for the knees. Fortunately, the myths aren’t as strong as they used to be. Many gym veterans will recall how doctors and other health-care providers maligned squats for decades. Squats were supposed to be bad for the knees. Leg extensions were supposed to be good for the knees. That led to the use of leg extension machines for rehabilitating knee injuries, and trainees in popular gyms knocked out set after set of heavy leg extensions. Olympic weightlifters, powerlifters, track and field athletes, football players and hardcore trainees, however, knew that wasn’t true and kept performing squats with very few problems.*

The health-care professionals who recommended leg extensions and squats were overwhelmingly untrained individuals who didn’t have any scientific evidence to support their ideas. It would be very difficult to push ideas like that today.

When you perform a leg extension, the major lower-leg bone, the tibia, slides forward. That stretches an important ligament in the knee, the anterior cruciate ligament, or ACL. We can only wonder how many athletes were told to perform leg extensions during rehab without any idea that it might be bad for their injured ligament. Various rehab leg extension machines were isokinetic, so they allowed only concentric, or positive, knee extension, or flexion. They often had the athlete perform leg or knee extensions at maximum speed and force. Eventually, people recognized the need for an anti-shear device to reduce the stress on the ACL.

Biomechanics research on the knee has demonstrated that during the squat and leg press, the tibia slides backward. That reduces the stress on the ACL.

Another problem with the leg extension is that it maximally stresses the cartilage on the back of the patella, a.k.a. kneecap, at its thinnest area. The cartilage is not uniform in thickness. It’s thinnest at the top and bottom of the patella and thickest near the middle. Maximal pressure at the thinnest part of the cartilage can damage or crack it.*

Squats are often called “physiologic flexion” by biomechanists. When you perform a squat, the maximal stress lines up with the thickest area of cartilage on the patella. Human beings were clearly designed to do that.*

Much research is taking place that involves training in one way or another. At one time there was very little research, and what there was was mostly conducted by doctors who didn’t like strength training. Now, at last, the research has evolved. The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research was accepted into Medline a few years ago. Other journals and researchers have explored training and clinical problems. I’ve quoted Frank G. Shellock, Ph.D., in this column before. Shellock has published more than 200 papers, has a doctorate in physiology, is a fellow of the American College of Sports Medicine and has competed as a powerlifter.*

Shellock and his co-researchers investigated leg extensions and one-leg squats in patients who had previously suffered dislocated patellas. During leg extensions, patellar displacement was more pronounced than during one-leg squats. Furthermore, the researchers found that during leg extensions, the patella rotated on the femur—thigh bone—while the one-leg squat could be characterized as the femur rotating underneath the patella. That difference may account for the problems with leg extensions.

If you like to perform a set or two of very light leg extensions as part of your warmup on leg day, it’s not a problem. You don’t use enough weight to damage the cartilage. Perform them gently. I don’t advise that you add more weight or more sets or that you perform them explosively.

MuscleAddiction
05-27-2013, 05:53 PM
Thanks Zed...for posting this as well as educating me on this as well, I haven't done leg extensions at all in 2013, and focus most on different variations of squats, presses, lunges, and of course dedz...and my legs are growing nicely and saving my knees for the future. Hope everyone reads this article and steers away from this exercise, take it from me and Zed...they are not required nor ideal for leg development.

chrisotpherm
05-27-2013, 07:51 PM
I use to have major pain around the knee area and for the life of me couldn't figure it out as like the above was uneducated on the leg ex. For years I did them and had major knee problems, then about three years ago, cut them completely out and haven't had any more problems. A good alternate is the forward lunge with dumbbells and or bench bar. Keep correct form and essentially will achieve the same goal.

Colstreamer
05-27-2013, 08:20 PM
Great info there, good write up. Another point is that leg extensions are an unnatural movement. Squats are perfectly natural, see a young child pick something up off the floor and they always squat down, with perfect form I might add. There's no natural movement which mimics the leg extension though. Many of the best exercises are natural movements, looks at pull ups vs lat pull downs for example, and they always seem to produce better results. Same with ab exercises, apart from getting up in the morning when do we ever do a sit up type movement? Abs are stabilising muscles generally and things like squats and deadlifts will work the hell out've them they way they're supposed to.

Encino_Mang
05-27-2013, 09:14 PM
Never do them.......hate leg exts.

MuscleAddiction
05-27-2013, 09:40 PM
Although what machine will you find in every gym, BUT what might you not find in some gyms? Leg Extension machines are as common as a water fountain in a gym, but some gyms won't have a squat rack or cage...hmmmm, interesting. I know of a gym in my town I cancelled my membership with due to they would not put in a squat rack or free weight barbell benches due to liability issues with insurance companies...they felt they were too dangerous for the average person working out, but will have machines like leg extensions. I still see just about 99% of personal trainers having their clients do leg extensions. Where has not only the education gone, but common sense??? No need to answer...rhetorical question!

SisterSteel
05-28-2013, 12:39 AM
Everyone should read this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great thread Zed.

NTL
05-28-2013, 10:34 AM
I quit doing a few months ago after we discussed how bad they are in another thread.

exphys88
05-28-2013, 11:19 AM
I've been told by several physical therapists to avoid them.

red crayon
06-22-2013, 10:51 PM
Lots of people think that there is no natural movement that is about the same as a leg extension but there is, When you use both legs to stand up off of a chair that is almost the same. Still I cant see any reason for using leg extensions for anything but a light warm up exercise, maybe before squats if you like to per-exhaust the quads so that your hams will do more work. I use them as a warm up on cold days but I dont go over 50% body weight on them. Oh and if you think Im wrong please correct me! Maybe I need to be corrected. : )

MuscleAddiction
06-22-2013, 10:59 PM
Lots of people think that there is no natural movement that is about the same as a leg extension but there is, When you use both legs to stand up off of a chair that is almost the same. Still I cant see any reason for using leg extensions for anything but a light warm up exercise, maybe before squats if you like to per-exhaust the quads so that your hams will do more work. I use them as a warm up on cold days but I dont go over 50% body weight on them. Oh and if you think Im wrong please correct me! Maybe I need to be corrected. : )

Do Sissy Squats, Burpees, or Box Jumps to warm up your legs for training...actually warms up your entire body as well as the other muscles that will be used for your leg day...much more effective!!!

Nelson303
06-22-2013, 11:12 PM
Fucking great write up Zed, I try to explain this to people. Working folks and strong country boys don't do that shit. They are lifting all day and how? By bending down to pick it up. I thought it was common sense. And I can see using them to rehab an injury. Light weight or no weight to get range of motion. But not to do heavy leg curls just to say you can. After I dropped the machines and do squats front and reg. totally no knee pain and my flexibility went way up. So those squats and my favorite deads. No machine cane archive your body using every fiber vs beng seating in a controlled plain. I wasn't sold on it till Sister Steel posted her leg day. I felt like a pussy. So I am doing no legs in machines. Zed I'm going to print this and put this on the board at the gym.. If you don't mind?

Layddually2
06-25-2013, 09:06 AM
I was using leg extension with light weight for a warm up before squats. But I could feel the acl stretching at full extension so I stopped.

zedhed
07-05-2013, 02:16 PM
Fucking great write up Zed, I try to explain this to people. Working folks and strong country boys don't do that shit. They are lifting all day and how? By bending down to pick it up. I thought it was common sense. And I can see using them to rehab an injury. Light weight or no weight to get range of motion. But not to do heavy leg curls just to say you can. After I dropped the machines and do squats front and reg. totally no knee pain and my flexibility went way up. So those squats and my favorite deads. No machine cane archive your body using every fiber vs beng seating in a controlled plain. I wasn't sold on it till Sister Steel posted her leg day. I felt like a pussy. So I am doing no legs in machines. Zed I'm going to print this and put this on the board at the gym.. If you don't mind?

Go for it bro. The management may have a sit down with you tho....

zedhed
07-05-2013, 02:18 PM
I was using leg extension with light weight for a warm up before squats. But I could feel the acl stretching at full extension so I stopped.

Dude for warming up for squat what is really good for me is to just do bod weight squats. 3 sets of 20 or so and you be g2g.

MuscleAddiction
07-05-2013, 02:28 PM
Dude for warming up for squat what is really good for me is to just do bod weight squats. 3 sets of 20 or so and you be g2g.

Ding...ding...ding!!! Excellent answer, or to warm up the knees for squats 10-15 min on an excersise bike at 5-10 level, and concentrate on warming up your knees and getting blood into your legs.

Lunchbox
07-05-2013, 02:34 PM
Aerobic masturbation helps get the blood flowing too....

Just sayin

sohumboldt215
07-05-2013, 04:05 PM
Aerobic masturbation helps get the blood flowing too....

Just sayin

lol

MuscleAddiction
07-05-2013, 06:29 PM
Aerobic masturbation helps get the blood flowing too....

Just sayin

Is that jacking off on a treadmill???

red crayon
07-06-2013, 08:42 AM
I usually use light squats to warm up for the heavy squats. To me it makes sense. If I need more of a warm up I might use the row machine some too. At the gym I go to we have a machine that simulates the motion that you do when rowing a boat, I was a member of a sculling team when I was in the military so I know how to do it. We used big whale boats and had a 4 member crew plus the coxswain.

SisterSteel
07-06-2013, 11:03 AM
..........At the gym I go to we have a machine that simulates the motion that you do when rowing a boat, I was a member of a sculling team when I was in the military so I know how to do it. We used big whale boats and had a 4 member crew plus the coxswain.

Red, you mean a concept2 rower? Those are a great pieces of equipment.

SisterSteel
07-06-2013, 11:06 AM
A great way to warm up and prepare your body for a brutal training day is to perform a dynamic warm up.

red crayon
07-08-2013, 12:04 AM
We had our competitions in the Bay by San Franscico. Trust me rowing across the bay will seperate the men from the boys. It was an inter-service competition.

The rowing machine that my gym has is an old Nordic Track model. Its not the best but it gets the job done.

zedhed
07-08-2013, 11:40 AM
Rowing would be a gr8 WU. Total body work so its all good.