Views on bodybuilding in your thirties...

[monk08]

hey guys...
just wondering what's your view on bodybuilding in the thirties? or any bros here started in their thirties - can share your gains/ progresses??
I know it will take more efforts as compared with someone starting in the twenties but it is possible to build your body up, correct? just having some doubts due to injury. :(

recently, hit a nerve on my left shoulder so am resting as advise by doctor....hence giving me time to re-look at my progress....and if i'm progressing...
have been training in the gym for years since in my twenties just to keep fit...but not into bodybuilding...
i started to train seriously for the past 6 years when I was 33 ... keeping a clean diet with a cheat meal once a week and training hard regularly without missing a single training....even had a trainer to help me progress.
started my first cycle when i was 37 after 3 years without much progress in terms of growth/gains. (but the clean diet did lean me down)
Now, i'm 39 and had completed 3 cycles but i still dont think i'm gaining or progressing physically in terms of growth.
yes, i did gain lbs in terms of bodyweight but visually, i dont see much growth....dont quite get where all the weight gain goes to...
I know every single body is different but am wondering what gains (in general) should one be expecting if you train hard 5 days a week, having the same clean diet yearly for 6 years and with 3 cycles under your belt?
i'm realistic and am not looking for bodybuilders' type of gain but at least expecting some good muscle development and growth overall given the years of hard work and discipline....
having doubts on my goals (wondering if i should still continue pushing) hence asking for your advices from bros who started bodybuilding late or able to give some views.
thanks in advance..

[zedhed]

Bottom line is YES and much better then you think.
Look at most of the PLrs out there that are setting records. They are between 25 and 40.
The male body does not reach peak muscular maturity untill we are around 30ish.Take a look at the Masters in BBing. They are monsters!
So yes you will have to be a little more careful. Yes it may take a little longer to recover from (strenuous) workouts, but barring any special conditions that you may have there is not good reason not to Kill Dat Shit in the gym and body build to your hearts content. You will also have to be a little more careful with your diet if you wanna have that BBer look.
I just turned 54 and have never looked better then I do right now. Typically I am my own worst critic.
I have been stronger and I have been much less injured but we learn as we go.
Good luck and keep posting up bro. We are all here to help each other out as best we can.
Also there are several brothers on here that are well past 30 that compete in BBing.
:cool:

[Encino_Mang]

Bottom line is YES and much better then you think.
Look at most of the PLrs out there that are setting records. They are between 25 and 40.
The male body does not reach peak muscular maturity untill we are around 30ish.Take a look at the Masters in BBing. They are monsters!
So yes you will have to be a little more careful. Yes it may take a little longer to recover from (strenuous) workouts, but barring any special conditions that you may have there is not good reason not to Kill Dat Shit in the gym and body build to your hearts content. You will also have to be a little more careful with your diet if you wanna have that BBer look.
I just turned 54 and have never looked better then I do right now. Typically I am my own worst critic.
I have been stronger and I have been much less injured but we learn as we go.
Good luck and keep posting up bro. We are all here to help each other out as best we can.
Also there are several brothers on here that are well past 30 that compete in BBing.
:cool:

Totally agree......you need to know what your body can handle........I know what lifts I can still do that allow me to continue without getting hurt.......and I'm still trying to get a grasp on backing off the amount of weight and using "time-under-tension" to build muscle.

Lol @ "Kill Dat Shit"

[monk08]

Bottom line is YES and much better then you think.
Look at most of the PLrs out there that are setting records. They are between 25 and 40.
The male body does not reach peak muscular maturity untill we are around 30ish.Take a look at the Masters in BBing. They are monsters!
So yes you will have to be a little more careful. Yes it may take a little longer to recover from (strenuous) workouts, but barring any special conditions that you may have there is not good reason not to Kill Dat Shit in the gym and body build to your hearts content. You will also have to be a little more careful with your diet if you wanna have that BBer look.
I just turned 54 and have never looked better then I do right now. Typically I am my own worst critic.
I have been stronger and I have been much less injured but we learn as we go.
Good luck and keep posting up bro. We are all here to help each other out as best we can.
Also there are several brothers on here that are well past 30 that compete in BBing.
:cool:

thanks zedhed!
Yes, i do understand the need to be careful with training, with avoiding injuries, with diet etc.
In fact, when i first decided to go for it 6 years...i am ready to put in the hard training, clean diet, even doing a few cycles and I gave myself a realistic 7 years to build a good built with muscle development overall in terms of size....not the bber look (dont think 7 years is enough to get BBer look) but bigger and more developed than when I started.
I am also my own worst critic and i have not had any injuries all these 6 years until now..
I personally dont think i have made any good gains after 6 years in terms of my goal...i meant i have read logs and forums where the gains achieved after 4-5 years are so much much better...making me question myself and my goal.
maybe it's the fact i'm asked not to train for 2 weeks to aid recovery for the shoulder injury hence feeling depressed and crappy....giving me time to look back the 6 years and wonder if i should continue 1 more year to try to achieve what i first set out to do....
thanks again for your advices! :)

[chrisotpherm]

Zed nailed it. As you get older you become wiser. What I know now would have saved me injury alow with produced better results overall. At 32 I've learned my capabilities and weaknesses and melted it together to produce proper gains and wanted results. When your younger you just don't think like you would as when your older in which causes you to risk more and do stupid stuff. Being older and wiser causes you to slow down, research and overall become smarter on how to get where your going in a safe and healthy way. Don't let your injuries or age deter you but be grateful that you are wiser on how to become a beast the right way than the wrong way.

[zedhed]

Def do the cycles bro. It seems to me that as I age I tend to actually get better results out of the cycle that I do. Also being leaner helps immensely with cycles.

[monk08]

Zed nailed it. As you get older you become wiser. What I know now would have saved me injury alow with produced better results overall. At 32 I've learned my capabilities and weaknesses and melted it together to produce proper gains and wanted results. When your younger you just don't think like you would as when your older in which causes you to risk more and do stupid stuff. Being older and wiser causes you to slow down, research and overall become smarter on how to get where your going in a safe and healthy way. Don't let your injuries or age deter you but be grateful that you are wiser on how to become a beast the right way than the wrong way.

thanks chrisotpherm!
yes, i do admit that you get wiser as you get older... as this is the first "injury" i had in the last 6 years since i started training very seriously.
this injury is not even an injury which i got during training but it's those "you wake up one day and you pulled a nerve" injury...
maybe i'm just a little depressed not able to train for 2 weeks (as i never missed a training these 6 years) and hence thinking whether the results i had so far jusified the 6 years of hard work...
Thanks for your advices! :)

[monk08]

Def do the cycles bro. It seems to me that as I age I tend to actually get better results out of the cycle that I do. Also being leaner helps immensely with cycles.

yes, i will continue with a couple more bulking cycles and see how it goes...
being leaner definitely helps...i always try to lean down before starting a cycle....
thanks again and appreciate it, bro!

[zedhed]

May wanna consider blast and cruise. IMO at our age its easier then bulking and cutting.

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[Ironguruera]

I basically started working out again at 30. Took 8 yrs off before that.
I'm 34 now and in the best shape of my life.
Injury wise as we get older we learn how to listen to our body and not do shit that hurts us in the gym.

Many factors apply. Gym intensity, exercises used, order of exercises.

Above all is diet. A trainer is good but a diet planner is far better money spent!!

[monk08]

May wanna consider blast and cruise. IMO at our age its easier then bulking and cutting.

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haha..actually that did cross my mind recently.
Am currently reading up and doing some research.
I'll like to think it's easier than bulking and cutting as well....i find bulk harder than cut...
my next cycle after recovery from this injury will be test prop+npp again.
what will be your recommendation for a blast and cruise??

[monk08]

I basically started working out again at 30. Took 8 yrs off before that.
I'm 34 now and in the best shape of my life.
Injury wise as we get older we learn how to listen to our body and not do shit that hurts us in the gym.

Many factors apply. Gym intensity, exercises used, order of exercises.

Above all is diet. A trainer is good but a diet planner is far better money spent!!

totally agreed with you on diet playing a big part.
I have seen how changing a diet can lean you down real good.
but having said that, i do wonder why is my gains not outstanding when i'm very discipline with my diet and tmyraining for 6 years.
still trying to figure out the correct combination for growth....or what i did wrong...

[Mansir]

i have found, at 39 , that i need to take short "breaks" from the high intensity work outs.. i can go hard for 5-6 months then i need a few weeks off to let my body rest.. when i get back at it after my short break i not only have a new found enthusiasm and motivation but my gains increase significantly.. i have worked through so many injuries through out the years and hate to admit it, but i am getting old and my body just cant handle the same things it could when i was in my 20s..lol

[Ironguruera]

totally agreed with you on diet playing a big part.
I have seen how changing a diet can lean you down real good.
but having said that, i do wonder why is my gains not outstanding when i'm very discipline with my diet and tmyraining for 6 years.
still trying to figure out the correct combination for growth....or what i did wrong...

Hard to say. Most ppl think their diet is good and it's far from. Maybe u eat healthy but not enough cals. Maybe u don't assimilate food well and could benefit from digestive enzymes.

We are all out worst critics. I'd have to see some pics to see your "lack " of progress.

Some ppl are more genetically gifted then others.

Gym intensity and good lifting programs are a huge part of all this. Diversity is also important. If u do the same exact thing for 6 yrs that could also be the issue.

Not trying to be a dick but your diet and training can not be ideal for your body type if you have little to no gains to show for it in 6 yrs.....unless u have the worlds worst genetics. Something needs tweaking.....or your perception of your body before an after is just clouded. Before and after pics could help us judge this.

[monk08]

i have found, at 39 , that i need to take short "breaks" from the high intensity work outs.. i can go hard for 5-6 months then i need a few weeks off to let my body rest.. when i get back at it after my short break i not only have a new found enthusiasm and motivation but my gains increase significantly.. i have worked through so many injuries through out the years and hate to admit it, but i am getting old and my body just cant handle the same things it could when i was in my 20s..lol

oh.. i didnt try taking weeks off.
I have been hitting my trainings hard 5days a week for the past 5 years....my rest days are the weekends.
i considered mine to be high intensity i guess as i like to do supersets and dropsets...
i thought that as long as you eat clean, train hard and rest well, you will be growing....

[monk08]

Hard to say. Most ppl think their diet is good and it's far from. Maybe u eat healthy but not enough cals. Maybe u don't assimilate food well and could benefit from digestive enzymes.

We are all out worst critics. I'd have to see some pics to see your "lack " of progress.

Some ppl are more genetically gifted then others.

Gym intensity and good lifting programs are a huge part of all this. Diversity is also important. If u do the same exact thing for 6 yrs that could also be the issue.

Not trying to be a dick but your diet and training can not be ideal for your body type if you have little to no gains to show for it in 6 yrs.....unless u have the worlds worst genetics. Something needs tweaking.....or your perception of your body before an after is just clouded. Before and after pics could help us judge this.

you could be correct for all these points.
I like to think my diet is good as i eat according to macros since i kept a spreadsheet of the food i ate and i eat the same food 6 days a week...(yes same food for the whole day for 6 days)... i did increase my calories when on cycle bulking by adding more complex carbs and a protein bar or 2.
however, like you said...i might not be assimilating food well or i could be having real lousy genes...which i suspected i might.. :(
training wise, i change the routine every other day each body part...however..i do like to go for supersets and dropsets as I feel that you have to train hard each time you are in the gym ...make every training counts....perhaps that could be my problem(?)

unfortunately, i dont have a before pic from 6 years ago before i started ....but i might have one from 3 years ago before i started my first cycle.
after pics will be now after 3 weeks of no training as i didnt took one after my last cycle 2 months back.
Let me find the old pic and maybe you guys can help judge...

[Ironguruera]

Working hard each set and session is key. That is not the problem. Supersets etc are great. Maybe over training? Depends on how much time in gym and how many days per week as well as your body type. Skinny hard gainers become over trained far easier then other ppl.

[monk08]

Working hard each set and session is key. That is not the problem. Supersets etc are great. Maybe over training? Depends on how much time in gym and how many days per week as well as your body type. Skinny hard gainers become over trained far easier then other ppl.

Actually, i'm not sure if it's overtraining or not....i meant i dont get DOM for more than 1 day, i'm not tired when it's time for training and I like being in the gym training and sweating it out.
I read that as long as you are eating and rest well, you should recover well from training.
I spend an hour each day for each body part 5 days a week, cardio 30mins 3x a week.
actually i'm planning to do 6 days training for my next cycle - hitting my weak body parts 2x a time for a change.
not sure if i'm a hard gainer or not but i think i'm carbs sensitive...increasing my carbs intake can really increase my weight....hence my carbs intake is normally avg 200-250g unless on bulking cycles.

[chrisotpherm]

In order to dial your diet in you have to find you baseline calorie intake. The baseline is where you don't gain or loose weight but maintain current weight. From there you bump up your calories by 5-1000 for two weeks to see where you begin to grow. Then you turn it up again after two weeks by 5-1000 calories for another two weeks and eventually you will find the sweet spot calorie intake you need to see gains that you want. Hard gainers to not feel sick from all the food intake need to add in a high calorie weight gainer. Keep in mind when your smashing food in high calorie amount and especially high protein you need to keep a good fiber routine intake regime. If you don't you will be miserable.

[zedhed]

I would suggest a CKD type of diet for you to try on your next go. And be sure and significantly increase your cals. Most peeps that have trouble seeing results have cut too much of the good fats and cals believing that this is eating clean. To build muscle you mist supply the fuel. If your a hard gainer the then you can doibke your cals. I also think that you may be working out too much from what it sounds like. To be working out 6 days per week you should be eating a tremendous amount of food. Protein shakes as well as MRP shakes. IMO.

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[chrisotpherm]

Man Zed we must have posted at the same time. Lol.

[zedhed]

I think we did bro. Brothers think alike!:cool:

[monk08]

Not trying to be a dick but your diet and training can not be ideal for your body type if you have little to no gains to show for it in 6 yrs.....unless u have the worlds worst genetics. Something needs tweaking.....or your perception of your body before an after is just clouded. Before and after pics could help us judge this.


managed to find some old pics
Year 2008 before I started training - 172lbs


Year 2012 before i started my first cycle of test e only - 177lbs
i went on a cut before starting the cycle.
2537
2538

lastly, this is current - should be around 190-195lbs.
11 weeks out from last cycle...3 weeks of no training due to pinched nerve injury at the neck.
2539 2540

I think these pics will help you guys to judge....if my perception is clouded or my progress is really bad for having trained 6 years.

[monk08]

missed out the first pic
Year 2008 before I started training - 172lbs
2542

[Ironguruera]

Hmm ok no you are not being hard on yourself IMHO. U looked good when u cut before the cycle and show muscle there.

Ok I'll be honest and not sugar coat. There is something that needs serious serious tweaking here.

Post up a few sample routines for say what u do on chest day as well as biceps. Also how many days a week do u train them?

From those pics training is no where near intense enough or possible overtraining. I also suggest working with a diet planner or at an utter minimum use a calorie/macro tracker phone app and we can help tweak it.

I realize we are 2 totally different genetics but for comparison here is me before I started lifting at 140-142
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/05/y5ega2ep.jpg
Here was 6-8months training no juice 160 ish
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/05/uqazu5uq.jpg
Now I admit I took 8 yrs off and was 165 ish back in my 20's so I it's not totally fair comparison as I have muscle memory working. For reference I train 3 days a week

[monk08]

Hmm ok no you are not being hard on yourself IMHO. U looked good when u cut before the cycle and show muscle there.

Ok I'll be honest and not sugar coat. There is something that needs serious serious tweaking here.

Post up a few sample routines for say what u do on chest day as well as biceps. Also how many days a week do u train them?

From those pics training is no where near intense enough or possible overtraining. I also suggest working with a diet planner or at an utter minimum use a calorie/macro tracker phone app and we can help tweak it.


no prob...just give me the hard truth, no need to sugar coat and I have been questioning myself on my progress and goal given that i have put in 6 years.
I do read up and do researches and I know that my progress is not good enough hence i'm asking for advices and opinions here.
i do know that when i cut, i looked good but my goal is to get bigger and at 177lbs @ 5' 11, I feel "small".
I think it's a failure having trained so long and the development of upper body muscles are not enough to justify.
I will try to post a few routine for my trainings as i dont really train using the same exercise each time.

[monk08]

here's my training routine for a week.
I trained 5 days a week - 1 day for each body part.
Have been doing that for the past 4 years while first 2 years were 4 days a week.

A typical week
Day 1 (Monday)
Back
Lat pulled-down x4 sets with 1 drop set
T-bar row superset with assisted closed grip pulled up x4 sets with 1 drop set
Seated row superset with stiff arm lat pulled down x3 sets
One-arm row x4 sets
Bend over row superset with high row pulled down(machine or cable) x3 sets

Day 2 (Tuesday)
Shoulder
Shoulder press (smith or dumbbells) x4 sets
Arnold press (dumbbells) x4 sets
Side lateral raise with dropset every set x4 sets
Wide grip upright row superset with front raise x3 sets
Rear delt flyes (cables or dumbbells) x3 sets
Shrugs or upright rows x4 sets

Day 3 (Wednesday)
Arms
Preacher curls superset with tricep pushdown x4 sets with 1 drop set
alternate dumbbells curl superset with overhead dumbbell extensions x4 sets
incline seated 7s superset with Lying tricep extensions x4 sets
standing high cable curls with single-arm cable extensions x3 sets with 1 dropset
concentrated curls with kickbacks x3 sets

Day 4 (Thursday)
Legs
Squats with dropset every set x4 sets
Leg press (close feet and norm) x4 sets
Walking lunges superset with dumbbell sumo squat x4 sets
Leg extensions with dropset every set x4 sets
seated leg curl superset with sissy squat x4 sets

Day 5 (Friday)
Chest
Incline bench press (dumbbells/ barbell) x4 sets with 1 drop set
Flat bench press with dropset every set (dumbbells/ barbell) x4 sets
Incline flyes x4 sets with 1 drop set
Flyes superset with dips x3 sets
Decline press (machine) x4 sets

the variety of the exercises for each training changes a little depending on what is available but i generally try to cover all areas.
My volume used to be between 24-30 sets per day but has changed it to no more than 20 sets to see how the body response.
I definitely dont think i overtrained...but dont know if it is high intense enough as i like to superset a lot and dont rest much between sets.
I dont lift very heavy as i worried about my form and dont want to get injury unnecesary so I train within the 10-12 reps range.
i will post my diet next.

[Ironguruera]

Routines looks good.
Hmmm ok while form is important I see some Guys get a little overboard and have amazing form but lifting next to nothing weight wise. There is a balance of both worlds for sure. Watch some videos of the pros lift. Most have that balance of lifting heavy but still contracting the target muscle. Some you tube idiots critique their form as not perfect but if u watch....they are hitting what they want!

When u say u do 10-12 reps that's fine but are u simply stopping at that 10-12? Or is that 10-12 rep all out all u can muster and barely getting it??? This is the most important question I can ask! U should be really fighting for that last reps if not the weight it not nearly enough. On the other hand if form is getting sloppy by rep 4-5 it's far too heavy

Last is do u always do the same thing routine wise always?? Or do u swap in new moves and have heavy days or weeks?

[monk08]

my diet for my last bulking cycle:
400 P, 350 C, 110 F = est. 4000 calories.
I increase my carbs as I found that carbs works well with npp.

My daily diet:
9 eggs
4 slices of multi-grain bread with peanut butter
14 oz of salmon
14 oz of chicken breast
2 green apples
2 bowls of brown rice
mass gainer
caesin protein
1-2 quest protein bar

I eat the same food daily for 6 days and cheat day is on sunday where i have slight more carbs/ fats then protein.
if i'm not on cycle and maintaining at around 185ish...i will maintain at this or less:
350 P, 200 C, 100 F = est 3100 calories.

[monk08]

Routines looks good.
Hmmm ok while form is important I see some Guys get a little overboard and have amazing form but lifting next to nothing weight wise. There is a balance of both worlds for sure. Watch some videos of the pros lift. Most have that balance of lifting heavy but still contracting the target muscle. Some you tube idiots critique their form as not perfect but if u watch....they are hitting what they want!

When u say u do 10-12 reps that's fine but are u simply stopping at that 10-12? Or is that 10-12 rep all out all u can muster and barely getting it??? This is the most important question I can ask! U should be really fighting for that last reps if not the weight it not nearly enough. On the other hand if form is getting sloppy by rep 4-5 it's far too heavy

Last is do u always do the same thing routine wise always?? Or do u swap in new moves and have heavy days or weeks?

I know that there are people who lift 1 rep at the max load to train strength but as I started at 33, i am more concern on form and worried about injury....so my plan is to train at good form and not missed a single training and hit each session hard.
Maybe i should try training heavy....

when hitting at 10-12 reps, i am struggling a little at 10-12 and any adding of weights will drop the reps to 6-8.
if i find 10-12 is too easy, i will push it to 15 reps and then add more weights...you have to give your all for each set so I always fight for the last rep.

My routine will be as such that it's the same with a couple of exercises changed but with still cover the same areas.
major changes in moves will happen once every 3-6 months.
for example for chest day,
right now i'm focusing more on incline press but covering all areas of chest. a few months later, i will change the focus more on flat and changes the exercises around but still cover all areas - is that what you meant by swapping new moves and routines??
I dont do a heavy week or days.

I am planning to train 6 days for my next cycle where i will hit shoulder and chest twice a week - 1 heavy day and 1 light.
But i dont know if that is fine since given my progress now...

[Ironguruera]

I train pretty day to day. Some days I don't even wanna be there and I just go through the motions. Other days I'm ready for it and go for broke.
I rarely do the same exact routine 2 weeks in a row. Yes it's chest day but sometimes I don't feel like horsing with DB and will just use the smith machine. Or some fuck tard has camped out on the equipment so I'll do something else.
Try some lower reps like 6-8 esp on heavier mass moves like bench or squats. Keep higher reps to isolation moves IMHO.

[monk08]

I train pretty day to day. Some days I don't even wanna be there and I just go through the motions. Other days I'm ready for it and go for broke.
I rarely do the same exact routine 2 weeks in a row. Yes it's chest day but sometimes I don't feel like horsing with DB and will just use the smith machine. Or some fuck tard has camped out on the equipment so I'll do something else.
Try some lower reps like 6-8 esp on heavier mass moves like bench or squats. Keep higher reps to isolation moves IMHO.

oh...i rarely have that moment...i always go for broke everytime i'm in the gym..just loved being in the gym training..lol
I think i have the mentality and focus but just dont know what goes wrong....
I planned it that i hit the gym during off peaks so i will always have access to most of the equipments.

noted...i will go for lower reps once i'm back into training...
hope it will fix my problem as i'm really sucks at my progress currently...and i'm right to be hard on myself...

[Ironguruera]

Its hard to say for sure. Some ppl think they are going all out until u train with them the u see what they truly train like.

I rarely ever use cardio equipment but I've been using the stationary bike as a knee/leg warm up. I've seen this lazy Asian fucker on there a few times now. He is peddling so fucking slow I'm surprised the machine doesn't turn off!! He was playing on his phone then his iPad.....I came so close to just telling him to go fucking home he was wasting the equipment and sucked at life. Luckily my warm up was over and I just left it alone. Not saying this is you by any means some ppl are clueless.

Try to crank up the weights at least on heavier stuff on the last set or so. I have a hunch u are going to light and not pushing hard enough to really hit hypertrophy.

[monk08]

Its hard to say for sure. Some ppl think they are going all out until u train with them the u see what they truly train like.

I rarely ever use cardio equipment but I've been using the stationary bike as a knee/leg warm up. I've seen this lazy Asian fucker on there a few times now. He is peddling so fucking slow I'm surprised the machine doesn't turn off!! He was playing on his phone then his iPad.....I came so close to just telling him to go fucking home he was wasting the equipment and sucked at life. Luckily my warm up was over and I just left it alone. Not saying this is you by any means some ppl are clueless.

Try to crank up the weights at least on heavier stuff on the last set or so. I have a hunch u are going to light and not pushing hard enough to really hit hypertrophy.

ya..i know...every body is different.
Actually, i'm not expecting progress to be this bad given that i trained with my buddy who is also a trainer for the past few years...sigh
I will try what you suggest and crank up the weights....
thanks for the advices!!

[zedhed]

Bro IMO you should try a CKD type of diet.
I have found that as I age I need far less carbs and more protein and good fats. I do much better on that kind of diet and its the way I like to eat too.
Also for fast results I would drop Tue and Thur weights, do 60 min of cardio on those days.
Do weights on Mon, Wed, Fri and Sat.
You might wanna do some research on 10x10 while your soft looking. That combined with CKD diet and cardio will whittle you down pretty fast.
Also for now would cut the cals back from 500-700 less then now.
:cool:

[zedhed]

Would also suggest Proviron. It is amazing for us mature guys. 60-100mg/day.
:cool:

[Ironguruera]

Bro IMO you should try a CKD type of diet.
I have found that as I age I need far less carbs and more protein and good fats. I do much better on that kind of diet and its the way I like to eat too.
Also for fast results I would drop Tue and Thur weights, do 60 min of cardio on those days.
Do weights on Mon, Wed, Fri and Sat.
You might wanna do some research on 10x10 while your soft looking. That combined with CKD diet and cardio will whittle you down pretty fast.
Also for now would cut the cals back from 500-700 less then now.
:cool:

Thanks zed u beat me too it. We need to address the diet as this is the biggest puzzle piece. If the training is truly there as u say then it's diet we need to tweak.

[zedhed]

Just doing my best to help a good bro out and get to the place he wants to be.

Sent from my HTC first using Tapatalk 2

[monk08]

In order to dial your diet in you have to find you baseline calorie intake. The baseline is where you don't gain or loose weight but maintain current weight. From there you bump up your calories by 5-1000 for two weeks to see where you begin to grow. Then you turn it up again after two weeks by 5-1000 calories for another two weeks and eventually you will find the sweet spot calorie intake you need to see gains that you want. Hard gainers to not feel sick from all the food intake need to add in a high calorie weight gainer. Keep in mind when your smashing food in high calorie amount and especially high protein you need to keep a good fiber routine intake regime. If you don't you will be miserable.


I would suggest a CKD type of diet for you to try on your next go. And be sure and significantly increase your cals. Most peeps that have trouble seeing results have cut too much of the good fats and cals believing that this is eating clean. To build muscle you mist supply the fuel. If your a hard gainer the then you can doibke your cals. I also think that you may be working out too much from what it sounds like. To be working out 6 days per week you should be eating a tremendous amount of food. Protein shakes as well as MRP shakes. IMO.

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yes..i know diet is one of the main factor.
i did monitor and keep a record of the food i eat and the macros per day.

[monk08]

Bro IMO you should try a CKD type of diet.
I have found that as I age I need far less carbs and more protein and good fats. I do much better on that kind of diet and its the way I like to eat too.
Also for fast results I would drop Tue and Thur weights, do 60 min of cardio on those days.
Do weights on Mon, Wed, Fri and Sat.
You might wanna do some research on 10x10 while your soft looking. That combined with CKD diet and cardio will whittle you down pretty fast.
Also for now would cut the cals back from 500-700 less then now.
:cool:

yes...i think i should try CKD...will do some readup on it and plan since it reduces the carbs by a lot compared to what i'm currently taking.
The pics from 2012 before i started my first cycle - i reduced my carbs to low (but cant remember how low) and did cardio like what you are suggesting now and i really lean down a lot...just need to go back to that time and do the same again.
do 2x 60min cardio a week? i normally do cardio for 30mins 3x a week after the training....i can change that..

[monk08]

Would also suggest Proviron. It is amazing for us mature guys. 60-100mg/day.
:cool:

oh really?
only tried it once during my first cycle....cant really tell the difference that time since it's the first cycle.
i might try it for my next cycle... thanks!

[monk08]

Thanks zed u beat me too it. We need to address the diet as this is the biggest puzzle piece. If the training is truly there as u say then it's diet we need to tweak.


Just doing my best to help a good bro out and get to the place he wants to be.

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Thanks, Ironguruera & zedhed!!
yes, i will heed the advices given and made the changes and see how the body response.
just wondering - CKD diet can be used while on cycle??
I can try to start CKD next week if possible and see how it goes for a few weeks before starting my cycle in Oct.

[Ironguruera]

Of course it can be used on gear. The body does everything better when on gear. Keeps muscle while
Losing fat. Gain muscle when bulking etc.

Cycling carbs is a great one. Low carb days with refeed/higher carb days

[zedhed]

Yup I concure.

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[monk08]

Hi zebhed,
I am currently on week5 of the ckd diet.
I had dropped 11lbs since I started...which surprised me that I dropped that much weight but reasonable since I cut out the carbs.
Just wondering...how does one know if your body is starting to burn fats and not using proteins?

[BigBones]

Hi zebhed,
I am currently on week5 of the ckd diet.
I had dropped 11lbs since I started...which surprised me that I dropped that much weight but reasonable since I cut out the carbs.
Just wondering...how does one know if your body is starting to burn fats and not using proteins?

Do you know your BF%? Hydrostatic underwater weighing is the easiest and most reliable ways to get an accurate %. A water displacement test (home) can be done or use a caliper pinch test, preferably 7 point test at a minimum.

[pockets]

Iron im just reading this thread but your 3 day workouts consist of what?

[Ironguruera]

Iron im just reading this thread but your 3 day workouts consist of what?

Chest/bicep

Legs/tricep

Shoulders/back

Abs/calves/forearm 1-3 times a week.

Train for 1 hr ish

No cardio

Most recent pic. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/24/2yquzatu.jpg

[pockets]

Great job..

[Ironguruera]

Great job..

Thanks. I do what I can with my busy life. In a perfect world my diet would be better and my dedication and time would be better

[pockets]

Yea thats my issue at 45 yrs old. Long ass hrs and no time to breath.

[zedhed]

Hi zebhed,
I am currently on week5 of the ckd diet.
I had dropped 11lbs since I started...which surprised me that I dropped that much weight but reasonable since I cut out the carbs.
Just wondering...how does one know if your body is starting to burn fats and not using proteins?

Sorry it took me so long bro. You can buy urine test strips at any drug store or online. But they are not cheap and I am so I dont bother. (keto strips) as long as you are loosing weight and sticking to the diet you are loosing fat. That simple. Really it is. :cool:

[monk08]

Sorry it took me so long bro. You can buy urine test strips at any drug store or online. But they are not cheap and I am so I dont bother. (keto strips) as long as you are loosing weight and sticking to the diet you are loosing fat. That simple. Really it is. :cool:

No prob..Nah..I'm not really bother either. :)
I know losing weight is for sure when one cut out the carbs..just wasn't expecting this fast/much..
weight has started to stay around 180lbs and I'm back to training after 7 weeks of resting from injury....finally.
I intend to stick to this diet for a while longer to see what it can do..but i think this diet is making me feeling more thirsty and a little tired..
Thanks for the advices, bro. :)

[monk08]

Do you know your BF%? Hydrostatic underwater weighing is the easiest and most reliable ways to get an accurate %. A water displacement test (home) can be done or use a caliper pinch test, preferably 7 point test at a minimum.

i dont know what's the actual %.
Have a machine that give BF% in the gym but that's not accurate.
I know caliper pinch test is quite accurate but it's not easily available.
just asking how one gauge....

[monk08]

Chest/bicep

Legs/tricep

Shoulders/back

Abs/calves/forearm 1-3 times a week.

Train for 1 hr ish

No cardio

Most recent pic. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/24/2yquzatu.jpg

looking good Ironguruera...and it works for you using the 3 days routine? wthout cardio??
I used to stick to a 5 days routine but am now on 3 days routine on doc's order to start slow.
maybe i will stick to 3 days routine like you and see how it works out for me..

[Ironguruera]

looking good Ironguruera...and it works for you using the 3 days routine? wthout cardio??
I used to stick to a 5 days routine but am now on 3 days routine on doc's order to start slow.
maybe i will stick to 3 days routine like you and see how it works out for me..

Yeah I'll prob never have time to do a 5 day a week program. I work 50 hrs a week and have 1 hr of travel daily. I have a family and they are my priority. The gym is just a stress reliever and hobby for me.

3 days a week has been my staple since I started training again over 4 yrs ago. No cardio pretty much ever lol. I mean besides sex lol. I do ride my bicycle but haven't even done that in ages. I just try to eat clean and not have too much Sam Adams lol. I admit I have good genetics. Im somewhere in the middle road.....if I eat too much the abs go away. If I don't eat enough I don't grow.

[monk08]

Yeah I'll prob never have time to do a 5 day a week program. I work 50 hrs a week and have 1 hr of travel daily. I have a family and they are my priority. The gym is just a stress reliever and hobby for me.

3 days a week has been my staple since I started training again over 4 yrs ago. No cardio pretty much ever lol. I mean besides sex lol. I do ride my bicycle but haven't even done that in ages. I just try to eat clean and not have too much Sam Adams lol. I admit I have good genetics. Im somewhere in the middle road.....if I eat too much the abs go away. If I don't eat enough I don't grow.

my work hours are a little flexible as long as the project or work on hand finished on time and yes, gym is a stress reliever for me too.
haha lol..guess you do have good genetics given not much cardio and with abs. :)
i trained 5 days week and 3 days cardio for over 4 years...i think i definitely have to try to cut down my training to 3 days and see how i response.

[zedhed]

No prob..Nah..I'm not really bother either. :)
I know losing weight is for sure when one cut out the carbs..just wasn't expecting this fast/much..
weight has started to stay around 180lbs and I'm back to training after 7 weeks of resting from injury....finally.
I intend to stick to this diet for a while longer to see what it can do..but i think this diet is making me feeling more thirsty and a little tired..
Thanks for the advices, bro. :)
This is telling you that your bod is learning to use fat stores for fuel. This is just as it should be. This will last for a few weeks and then you will have energy to burn. Just stick with it bro. You will be so glad you did.

[zedhed]

Update plz Monk.

[monk08]

Update plz Monk.

hey bro,
on my 10th week this week and quite used to the diet by now.
didnt weigh recently but should be around 176-180lbs.
didnt know if i'm still cutting on fats but i will upload a current pic later.

[zedhed]

Looking forward to it bro. If your sticking to the diet then your loosing fat, thats just it bro.

[monk08]

Looking forward to it bro. If your sticking to the diet then your loosing fat, thats just it bro.

I'm still my diet at 2500cal - 40% protein, 5% carbs, 55% fats. (reduce it from the initial 2700cal @ 35P, 5C, 60F)
Here's my current pic from yesterday (left) and before the CKD diet (right)
2718 2719

i think weight has been around 176 -180 for the past 4 weeks (didnt weigh weekly, goes with mirror and how i feel)
I think i will try to drop to 2300cal? any advice on that?

[zedhed]

Try it and see how you feel. You can always bring it back up. You do any cardio? Even a 10 min warm uo and cool dn will make a dif.

[monk08]

Try it and see how you feel. You can always bring it back up. You do any cardio? Even a 10 min warm uo and cool dn will make a dif.

Yes...I did cardio all the 10 weeks.
First 6 weeks, 2x swimming 10laps and 3x 60mins incline brisk walking on trackmill.
The last 4 weeks, only 3x swimming 25laps.

Yes, I will try with 2300cal and see how it is.

[zedhed]

Ok this is gonna counterintuitive but just think about it. On a lot of the boards for this diet they woukd tell you do not decrease calls, but instead increase fats. Now the reason for this is that you have re-taught your bod to use fat for fuel. So by increasing fats, you will akso increase your metabokism. So the take home lesson is EXPIRMENT and see what works for you. If you increase fats decrease carbs by the same amount. Keep us posted and good lick. By the way you looking good in your progress. Well done!

[monk08]

Ok this is gonna counterintuitive but just think about it. On a lot of the boards for this diet they woukd tell you do not decrease calls, but instead increase fats. Now the reason for this is that you have re-taught your bod to use fat for fuel. So by increasing fats, you will akso increase your metabokism. So the take home lesson is EXPIRMENT and see what works for you. If you increase fats decrease carbs by the same amount. Keep us posted and good lick. By the way you looking good in your progress. Well done!

oh...i didnt think of the diet this way...so yes it is indeed different.
I was planning to drop 200 cal and to do that means dropping carbs and some fats.
I guess i will drop some carbs and increase fats but overall calories might increase a little.
i will try and play with the macros...thanks bro!

[zedhed]

Dont worry quite so much about cals bro. This is a non conventional diet and because of that a whole new way of fat (not weight) loss. It pretty cool that your logging this for everybody on the board. Your results are already very good.

[monk08]

Dont worry quite so much about cals bro. This is a non conventional diet and because of that a whole new way of fat (not weight) loss. It pretty cool that your logging this for everybody on the board. Your results are already very good.

yes..this is definitely a non-conventional diet as compared to what i had done before...though i have been on this diet for 10 weeks now..it still makes me wonder and think about this high fats = fat loss approach..it is interesting. :)
I'm still needing help so it will be better to log it and get advices from you and other vets as the diet goes on.
thanks again!

[zedhed]

:-)